Western
Pacific Q&A
If
you have a WP SPECIFIC question that you would like to submit to
this page, please send it to:
WPRRHS-THLQ&A
c/o Thom Anderson
689 - 21st Avenue
San Francisco CA 94121-3807
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we have an answer. Answers requiring data from the WPRRHS archives
at the Western Pacific Railroad Museum will be answered on a time-available
basis as the archives are still in the process of being cataloged.
Q.
15-1
I am trying to determine the proper paint colors for models of the
WP Class 171 4-8-2 and Class 481 4-8-4 passenger steamers as they
would have appeared in the late 1940's.
A.
15-1.1
Both classes were black overall with graphite smoke boxes. White
tire rims, white running board stripes, and white lettering. The
481 class had silver smokebox fronts and some pictures of the 171
class also seem to show silver smoke boxes on some engines. The
4-8-4's also had silver cylinder covers and silver pilots.
Q.
15-2
What color was used on the interior of steam locomotive cabs?
Q.
15-3
I've often heard train crews and dispatchers use the term "Deadhead"
or a "Deadhead Move" or that they were "Deadheaded". What does this
mean?
A.
15-3.1
A train crew goes "Dead" or "Dead on the Law" when it has worked
to its legal 12 hour maximum, but has been unable (for whatever
reason) to reach its terminal. The crew must now stop their train
at the nearest siding and wait for a fresh crew to be moved to the
stranded train and continue the trip to the next terminal. The term
"Deadhead" applies to crews when they're being moved into position
for service but are not actually performing train service. "Deadheaded"
crews may be moved by automobile or train. When the "Deadhead Crew"
arrives at the stranded train, the first crew is relieved and the
new crew takes over operation of the train. The crew that "Died"
may be forwarded to the destination terminal by return auto or they
may stay on the train depending on what transportation is available.
Due
to an imbalance of eastbound and westbound trains, a crew may complete
their run to one terminal and then be "Deadheaded" back to their
starting point to balance crews between terminals, or to get from
their home terminal to the location of their regular assignment
(as in the case of a branch line job that starts away from the crew
terminal).
Similarly,
a crew being called to duty to relieve crews which have "died" are
also referred to as "Dog catch" or "Patch" crews. These crews may
"Patch" as many trains as possible during their 12 hour time limit
and may have to be "Patched" by another "Deadheaded" crew.
Q.
15-4
I see constant reference to the "A" and "B" ends of rail cars. What
is the difference between the "A" and "B" end and how can I tell
them apart?
A.
15-4.1
The simplest explanation is that the "B End" is that end of the
car where the hand brake wheel is located. The "A End" has no hand
brake wheel. Some cars have hand brakes on both ends, usually depressed
center flat cars, some cabooses, and a few other heavy load cars.
On these cars look at the brake cylinder, the piston will extend
toward the B end of the car. If the car has 2 hand brakes and 2
brake cylinders the cars are usually labeled "A" and "B" somewhere
on the respective ends. When counting wheels on freight cars, if
you are standing on the brake step (B end) looking toward the A
end; the L1 wheel is the closest wheel on your left side and increase
L2, L3, etc. going toward the A end - R1, R2 etc. on the right side.
Passenger car wheels are numbered differently. From the B end, the
odd numbered wheels are on the left, 1, 3, 5, 7, etc. while even
numbered wheels are on the right.
Q.
15-5
Is it true that the WP station know as Tobar is named after a saloon?
A.
15-5.1
The location known as Tobar is actually milepost 733.4 just east
of Wells, Nevada. According to legend, when WP was being constructed
across the Silver State, a construction camp was located at this
site. A drinking establishment known as The Rag Saloon was also
located here. The saloon was apparently a typical "camp following"
type of establishment (a temporary structure made of canvas) dedicated
to depriving hard working construction crews from their hard earned
wages.
At
the point where the road from Clover Valley entered the camp, a
crudely fashioned sign was placed to point the way to the saloon.
The sign read "To Bar", but the spacing between the word "To" and
the word "Bar" was not well defined and the sign was simply read
as "ToBar". The camp, and later the town, came to be known by this
name. The WP had an 84 car (1910 size cars - 50 car modern size)
capacity passing siding and station here.
Q.
15-6
Did PFE ever have any 40 foot steel reefers lettered for the WP?
Intermountain offers decorated HO and N scale cars. Are they correct?
A.
15-6.1
No. Although this is an excellent model of the PFE R-40-12 steel
reefer, they were never lettered for the WP. All of the WP lettered
cars in the PFE fleet were 40 foot wooden cars with wooden ends.
Some cars were rebuilt with metal under-frames but retained wood
sides and ends. But it is a nice looking model!
Q.
15-7
Pictures of early WP steel gondolas have an inverted triangle design
on the side of the car near the end. What does this marking represent?
A.
15-7.1
I'm not positive, but I think this symbol was used to designate
the gondola was equipped with removable or "Drop Ends". Does anyone
have a better answer?
Q.
15-8
What color were WP Mission style stations? Most of the ones still
standing have been painted several times. Also, what was the color
of the window trim?
A.
15-8.1
While
I realize that none of this is definitive, the WP depot in Stockton,
(1025 East Main Street) retains what appears to be its original
service colors. (At the very least, it doesn't appear to have been
painted since the Carter administration.)
As seen from the street today, it has well-worn white paint with
black trim, and red terra-cotta tiles embelishing the edges of its
roof line. Doors leading into the passenger and express sections
are also painted black. (Submitted by Steve Cope)
Q.
15-9
Does anyone have information on when the WP's Hayward station was
torn down? There is a structure nearby that resembles photos of
the station. Was the station moved or torn down?
Q.
15-10
What was the difference between the WP's first order for GP-7's
#701-709 and the second order for #710-713? Strapac's book WP Diesel
Years reports that the second order was "virtually identical". Was
the difference internal or external?
Q.
15-11
I have seen photos showing a large headlight that was recessed into
the end of the carbody on the rear of the 801 and 804 class F-3B
and F-7B locomotives. All of the photos I have seen are of C-suffix
units. Did the B-suffix units have the large headlight? Was the
light applied to the front end as well?
A.
15-11.1
I believe the light was applied to the rear of both B and C suffix
boosters, since they could be (and were) mixed indiscriminately
in engine consists. I have no conclusive photographic evidence on
this, and the feature does not appear on mechanical department diagrams.
I'm not sure about whether the headlight was applied to the front
of the boosters, as WP seemed to be obsessive about running all
of the booster units facing forward in CZ engine consists. It also
appears the headlight was not applied to the 801 and 804 class F-3A
and FP-7A cab units, as 805-D at Portola does not show any sign
of having one at any time. Perhaps a reader out there can provide
more conclusive information.
Q.
15-12
Did WP own any 40' PS-1 boxcars with 6' doors?
A.
15-12.1
Though the vast majority of WP's 40' PS-1 boxcars were equipped
with 7' doors, two did. Numbers 1952 and 1953 were built in 1952
and equipped with 6' doors and painted bright orange with a small
silver feather. The cars were actually owned by their builder, Pullman-Standard
(P-S), and leased to WP. P-S used them for testing load restraining
devices and other components in real-use conditions. The cars were
sold to WP in 1960 and continued in service in the original paint
until they were retired, 1952 in 1967 and 1953 in 1974.
A.
15-12.2
I have a copy of the Official Railway Equipment Register
of October 1969 and of April 1973, both of which list #1952 as on
the roster. There is no record of #1953 in either listing. (Submitted
by Andrew Smith)
Q.
15-13
GP35 #3004 has a standard EMD style headlight and numberboard on
the front of the unit. Did it also have one on the rear?
A.
15-13.1
Unfortunately for modeling purposes, no. Three GP35 units, 3003,
3004 and 3020 have headlights modified from their as-built appearance.
In the case of 3003, it was a trailing unit in an engine consist
that had the earth slip out from under them near Paxton in 1965.
The damage was on the rear portion, which was repaired with a standard
EMD sealed beam headlight assembly, retaining the original headlight
and numberboard on the front which was apparently undamaged. It
also received its all-orange "Pumpkin II" paint at that time. Unit
3020 has the same headlight arrangement as 3003. The 3004 at some
point received a standard front EMD headlight/numberboard assembly
while retaining the "barrel" headlight on the rear. EMD sells repair
kits, along the same lines as Cannon & Associates does in HO
scale, only in 12" to one-foot scale! The circumstances of when
and why the changes to 3004 and 3020 took place are unknown at this
time.
Q.
15-14
I am currently modeling a WP SW1500 and I would like to know the
color that Western Pacific painted its road diesels, in particular
the dark green paint. I would prefer to know the actual Dupont paint
numbers for the original paint formula used during the 70's and
80's.
A.
15-14.1
WP actually used at least three different paints over the years
that the locomotives were painted green. The earliest repaints,
as well as some new units delivered in 1970 were painted in an olive
green shade. The number for this color is 939-AL-365. I don't know
if this is a DuPont number. In 1971 the color was changed to a slightly
lighter green, 939-54-738. Around April 1973 the color was changed
a third time to "Sterling Polyurethane green". There is no color
number shown for this. This information was found on pages 211 and
215 of D-Day on the WP by Virgil Staff.
As
to which shade the SW1500 units received, it definitely was not
the first. The change from the second to the third color was a month
before the SW's were built. I don't know if the WP informed EMD
of the change prior to the units being painted - if not, they might
have been painted in the second scheme. I don't have a way of accessing
EMD's records for that information, assuming that the information
still exists.
My
best guess is either the second or third one would be close enough
to pass inspection. I do not believe that the units were ever completely
repainted prior to the UP merger. One of them (1503?) had some damage
to the rear pilot around 1980, which was repainted solid orange.
Otherwise, I see no significant changes to them - I would bet that
they wore their factory paint the entire time they were in WP colors.
Thom
Anderson, Modeling Editor
The Headlight
Q.
16-1
On WP California Zephyr A Unit power, how much of the F3-A, F7-A,
or FP7-A roof is silver and how much is black? What is the 'paint
shape' on the roof in the horn area? Is it straight across, curved,
or triangular?
A.
16-1.1
First, a clarification - there were no F7-A units painted in passenger
colors. Cab units in passenger paint consisted of F3-A #801-A, 802-A,
803-A, FP7-A 804-A, 804-D, 805-A, 805-D, and ex NYO&W F3-A #801-D.
After the arrival of the FP7-As the 801-A and 802-A were maintained
as protection power and used primarily between Keddie and Portola
in freight service, and eventually were renumbered 925-A and 925-D.
The
roof on all units was black from the rear end forward to a point
just forward of the dynamic brake hatch. The cab roof was silver/aluminum.
The paint shape (IIRC) had the black coming forward slightly (around
1' to 2' or so to form a shallow point at the centerline. This is
the as-delivered scheme.
Good
clear shots seem hard to come by, but it does appear that the separation
between the black and silver/aluminum did go straight across by
the 1960's. The point of separation appears to be at or slightly
forward of the front edge of the dynamic brake hatch. This seemed
to vary from unit to unit, and was sometimes clearly visible, and
other times obscured by grime, exhaust, paint burn, etc.
The
units as delivered had a separation that started at the top of the
side grille in line with the front edge of the dynamic brake hatch.
The curving began immediately, and was a gentle curve that peaked
at the center of the unit approximately 2' or so forward of the
front edge of the dynamic brake hatch. This applies to both the
F3 and FP7 units.
Thom
Anderson, Modeling Editor
The Headlight
Q
16-2
I would like to know if anyone has information about the consist
of the first eastbound CZ which departed Oakland in march 1949.
I am going to recreate the train in HO scale brass for my father,
but as I am on active duty with the air force and travel a lot,
I don't get a lot of time to research and their isn't much info
available in Oklahoma about the CZ. I know which F3's were powering
the train, I would like to know the numbers or names of the 11 cars
of the first consist so as to be historically accurate.
A
16-2.1
The consist of the train from 1949 until sometime in 1952 is as
follows;
baggage
dome coach
dome coach
dome coach
dome-buffet-lounge-dormitory
10 roomette/6 double bedroom sleeper(Chicago)
10 roomette/6 double bedroom sleeper(Chicago)
diner
16 section sleeper
10 roomette/6 double bedroom sleeper(New York)
lounge observation
The
WP power was usually an A-B-B set of power consisting of the following
types of locomotives;
F-3A
(3)
F-3B (6)
FP-7A (4)
F-7B (2)
The
consist was most frequently led by the FP-7 units after their delivery
in 1950. Two of the F-3A units (801-A and 802-A) were placed in
reserve and were commonly used on freight trains between Portola
and Keddie after the FP-7 units arrived.
The
most common arrangement of B-units was two F-3, followed by one
each F-3 and F-7. An engine consist of an FP-7 and two F-7B units
is rare but not unheard of.
The
additional units were acquired to enable WP to shift the maintenance
point for the locomotives from Oakland to Oroville. At the time,
Oroville was where most of the heavy maintenance (short of overhauls)
was taking place. It would also allow a full 24 hour time period
for maintenance, instead of the shorter time between the train's
arrival in Oakland in the late afternoon and departure the next
morning. Power was changed out on the westbound train at the depot
in Oroville during its scheduled stop. Power from the previous day's
train would be placed on #17 and the other set would go to the roundhouse
at Oroville Yard, receive maintenance and then be placed on #17
the following day.
In
1952 additional sleepers and other cars were built. At that time
or subsequent to it, the 16 section sleeper was withdrawn from service
due to waning demand for open section sleeper space. These cars
were eventually rebuilt into coaches.
I
think that the diner was moved forward between the domes and sleepers
at this time as well, presumably to reduce foot traffic to the diner
by coach passengers.
I
suggest you acquire two books which should answer many of your questions;
"CZ
- The story of the California Zephyr" by Karl Zimmerman. This book
is available in a soft cover reprint version.
"Portrait
of a Silver Lady" by Ted Benson and Bruce MacGregor. This book is
out of print and is sometimes found at used book dealers. I have
heard that there are plans to reprint it, but by who or when it
will be done has not yet been decided.
Thom
Anderson, Modeling Editor
The Headlight
Q
16-3
I would like to know the locomotive numbers for WP F-3 passenger
units. Also, does anyone know what color the various handrails and
grab irons were painted on F-3 units and where the numbers are located
on the B units? The A units appear to have them on the number boards
only.
A
16-3.1
WP purchased three A-B-B F-3 locomotive sets. The A units were numbered
801-A, 802-A and 803-A. The B units were also 801, 802 and 803,
and carried the suffix letters B and C.
After
the FP7 units were acquired, 801-A and 802-A were kept in Portola
as passenger protection power, but were normally used in freight
service between Portola and Keddie. Eventually the two were renumbered
into the freight series as 925-A and 925-D.
Sacramento
Northern purchased three ex-New York, Ontario & Western F3-A
units in the late 1950s, IIRC. Two of them were lettered SN and
the third was leased to WP who placed it in passenger service as
801-D. It was easy to tell the difference between it and the others
as it did not have the stainless steel side panels, and it also
only had one front headlight. It very infrequently was used in passenger
service.
As
to the color of the grabs and rails, they are probably made from
stainless steel, as they were fairly bright, but i doubt that they
were plated, as that would eventually wear off. I'll have a look
at my photos and see if its anything different than that. In any
event, they were a silver color - not orange or black.
The
painted-on numbers appeared in two locations on all of the F-units
(both freight and passenger), both cab and boosters.
1-At
the bottom of the lower side panel at the rear end of the unit (the
end with the boiler or where the boiler would be on those that didn't
have it) just forward of the two vertical grabs at the end of the
side.
2-Both
ends of the B units and the rear end of the A units. There was a
stencilled warning about using plugs when removing the m.u. hoses
that appeared just above the hoses, and the unit number appeared
just above that. The numbers were small (3 or 4 inches high). Units
that were equipped with an internal spark arrestor had an outline
of a black triangle that was about the same height just above the
numbers. I know that it appeared on the sides, but I'd have to look
at photos to say whether or not it was on the ends as well. the
numbers, plug warning stencil and triangle all appear on the Microscale
WP locomotive sheet (#87-26 IIRC)
Thom
Anderson, Modeling Editor
The Headlight
Q
16-4
What were the colors of the walkways and the roofs on WP's silver
and orange hood units? Ditto for both silver and orange and pure
orange switch engines? I have only a few look-down photos of the
hood units and none of the switch eengines. In my pictures, the
(walkway and roof) colors in these don't seem to be consistent -
in some cases the roof and walkway seem to be silver and in other
cases they seem to be a weathered black. Was there a consistent
paint scheme and if so, what was it?
A
16-4.1
As far as I am aware, the walkways were black. There is always the
possibility that there may be the exception that has silver ones.
Low
hood units had the top of the low hood painted orange until around
1969-1970 when an anti-glare black was applied to them. The black
appeared on the entire top as well as the curved area.
The
tops of the high hood units were silver.
On
the silver and orange units, the hood tops are silver (Kato got
it wrong on their WP GP35), though the cab roof is black on EMD
units. The GE U30-B units that came in silver and orange (751-769)
had silver cab roofs applied by GE. WP never painted the roof black
on these units.
The
Pumpkin II (all orange) units are another matter. There was a period
of time where WP was painting the top of the hood and the side sill
black, but this practice was stopped and those areas were orange
on many units. Others had the black hood top and orange side sills.
There
was enough variations in this scheme to warrant the adage "model
from photos of the specific unit".
Thom
Anderson, Modeling Editor
The Headlight
Q
16-5
The Kato NW2 of WP 608 is a good start, but the most glaring difference
is the handrails. Is the a source for these? The same with the SW9
from Life Like - both in HO & N (really my scale)?
A
16-5.1
The side handrails on the NW2 are the stamped channel style that
has appeared on all EMD units from the GP9 on. The ones on the NW2s
are add-ons, probably installed by UP. Stanchions are available
from Precision Scale or Smokey Valley.
The
end handrails are a UP modification on the rear (cab end) only.
I've used Custom Finishing cast brass handrail stanchions (sorry,
I don't have the part numbers) with added brass wire to do these.
The
SW9 side handrail stanchions are WP add ons that appear to be identical
to the ones for Alco switchers. There is a two-part article in Issues
#13 and #14 of the WPRRHS Headlight magazine covering the SW9 units.
The
above is referenced to the HO models. I can't help on N scale. Any
of you others have any suggestions here?
Thom
Anderson, Technical Editor
The Headlight
Q
16-6
How did the WP paint and identify its MofW road-based vehicles (trucks,
high railers, etc.) as well as piggyback tractors in the '50's?
Were they all orange? Use the classic logo? I've never seen many
pictures. If anyone has any info I'd appreciate it.
Q
16-7
I'm modeling early 1950s Western Pacific in Nevada, between Palisades
and Utah. What color were structures, such as the 2-story Elko passenger
station? The freight station is now boxcar red, but looks repainted.
A
16-7.1
I looked over my copy of Catenary Productions "Western Pacific -
The First 50 years" video yesterday. It is well worth the money
if you don't already have it.
Based
on what I saw in the video, which was also confirmed by Norman Holmes
(who has a genuine WP outhouse in his collection!) the basic structure
color in the 1950s is a light tan color. The window sashes and doors
are a milk chocolate brown color. This appears to be the standard,
however there appear to be occasional exceptions to this, such as
tan doors and window sashes, but those two colors seem to be universal.
Some structures on the Western Division have shingle sides. The
shingles are a dark brown color. In those cases I believe that the
window frame was painted tan. I don't believe that there were any
shingle side structures on the Eastern Division, but even with black
and white photos you should be able to make an educated guess on
the paint scheme using the tan and brown.
Thom
Anderson, Modeling Editor
The Headlight
Q
16-8
I have many pictures of GP35 3003 in the "pumpkin" paint
scheme. However, I cannot tell if the unit is painted all orange,
or, is the top painted black including above the cab.
A
16-8.1
WP
3003 was painted in the Pumpkin II scheme in 1966, (June if I recall
correctly). The original scheme it was painted in includes black
on the frame side sill as well as the top of the long hood including
the fans, and cab roof. There is a black and white shot of the locomotive
in fresh paint on page 106 of Joe Strapac's book Western Pacific
Diesel Years. Even though the shot is black and white, the top
of the long hood and side sill are unmistakeably painted black.
A friend has a photo of the locomotive in November 1966, and the
side sill is freshly repainted orange. I'm not sure at this point
whether the top of the long hood has been repainted orange as well.
3003 was one of the first repaints into Perlman colors. I have a
slide taken by another friend of the locomotive fresh from the paint
booth (so fresh, not all of the cab window glass has been reinstalled).
His slide is undated, but the process date is April 1972.
Q
16-9
What color was used for the interior on passenger and freight F
Units?
A
16-9.1
The color is called "seafoam green". You might want to
check out this website;
http://www.trainweb.org/wp918d/index.html
It covers the restoration work being done on the 918 by the Niles
Canyon group. I seem to recall some discussion regarding the cab
interior colors there.
Q
16-10
I am wondering when the 3549 received a gyralight in it's nose (short
hood)?
A
16-10.1
My last photo of 3549 without the gyralite was taken June 28, 1980.
My first shot with the gyralite is on January 7, 1983. So it was
some time between those dates, though I believe it was closer to
the 1983 date, as I had not seen it prior to that time.
Q
16-11
My friend is painting and detailing two A-B-B-A sets of Stewart
FT's for me, one in the as-delivered green scheme and the other
in the early silver/orange scheme. In photos of the FT's in the
silver/orange scheme, on the A units, there is an airfoil type covering
on the roof in front of the dynamic brake. In some photos there
appears to be some type of piping under the covering. We're trying
to figure out the purpose for this airfoil covering and what's underneath
it so we can detail the models properly.
A
16-11.1
WP discovered in the mid-1940s (around 1947 IIRC, though I am not
certain of the date without looking it up) a problem with ice forming
in the train air line in the winter months on trains pulled by FT
units. This was determined to have been caused by insufficient cooling
of the compressed air after exiting the compressor. The air was
still hot when it entered the train air line. As it cooled, condensation
would form in the train line, and if cold enough, would freeze.
This, not unexpectedly, would cause brake problems in the winter.
WP added cooling coils to help dissipate the heat of the air before
it entered the train air line. IIRC, the coils were located inside
the carbody of the engine, and the airfoils were added to direct
outside air into the areas where the coils were located. Virgil
Staff went into great detail on this problem in his book D-Day
on the Western Pacific.
Q
16-12
What is the O.D. & length of the fat exhaust stacks on WP 608
(EMD NW2u)? Are there rain caps?
A
16-12.1
The exhaust stacks on WP 608 are 18 inches in diameter and 33 inches
high. On the inside there is another stack about 12 inches in diameter.
The space between the outer and inner stacks is filled with sand
(or soot?) There are no rain caps. (Submitted by Norman Holmes)
Q
16-13
I am modeling one of the WP RDC Zephyrettes. What colors were the
floors, chairs and walls?
A
16-13.1
The seats were a reddish-brown naugahyde (at least in the walkover
seat section at the rear). The front section between the exhaust
standpipe covers and the baggage compartment door had reclining
seats, but I never rode up there (too busy talking to the brakeman
who rode in the rearmost right seat). The predominant floor color
was a light brown linoleum, with dark red trim (close to oxblood)
as I recall. (Submitted by Bob Pecotich)
Q
16-14
A well known hobby manufacturer recently issued painted A and B
shells for WP F7's. We got some and upon examination, the B unit
had the old WP herald on one side only. According to the manufacturer,
"the WP only put the herald on one side and they ran the B
units aligned such that the herald side always faced passenger platforms"
My modest collection of WP books and photos and the back issues
of The Headlight do not substantiate this for any F units
that the WP had. Without casting aspersions on anyone, it sounds
to me like a) somebody at the manufacturer rationalized what could
be a major goof or b) I am dead wrong and like so many things, there
is an exception to every rule and somewhere out there is a photo
to substantiate the "one side herald".
A
16-14.1
I doubt that the passenger platform statement is entirely correct,
as WP's passenger stations were not all on the same side of the
mainline.
After receiving your question though, I did some checking. I was
always under the belief that the heralds were on both sides of the
freight booster units. These heralds were for the most part removed
from the sides of the freight boosters by the late 1950s-early 1960s,
replaced by the roadname spelled out in large letters. The passenger
boosters had the herald on both sides, and I continue to believe
that to be true.
There
are a few photos existent of the freight units brand new at EMD
and shortly after arrival on WP. In those cases, the rear of the
boosters were coupled together. The herald only appears on the left
side of the boosters. My thought is perhaps (based on the initial
idea that the four units would be kept together in a set), like
the FT units, the idea of one herald appearing on each side was
what they had in mind when applying the herald.
I
will post additional information as I learn more on this.
